Introduction
In this video, I go through a client questionnaire I created for my students to help make sure people understand what working with 5-MeO-DMT can involve. That includes difficult experiences, loss of awareness, reactivations, and the range of responses to an overwhelmingly powerful experience.
In my work as a teacher and integration guide, I encounter too many people who were not prepared for what happened during or after their session. I want these conversations to happen beforehand, with full disclosure and informed consent, rather than relying on mystification, spiritual ideals, or the expectation that the experience will be beautiful, brief, and easy to integrate.
Download the client questionnaire here
To learn more about Martin’s approach to integration work, explore his integration specialist training. If you’re seeking support after your own experience, see his one-to-one integration sessions.
Transcript lightly edited for readability. Source: Martin Ball, The Entheogenic Evolution, ‘Full Disclosure and Informed Consent.’
Educational discussion, not medical advice or a facilitation protocol. Do not change prescribed medication on this basis; advance consent does not authorize every later intervention or sexual contact.
Contents
Full transcript
Why full disclosure comes before a session — 0:13
Hi, once again, it's me, Martin, here on the Entheogenic Evolution channel on YouTube, and I've got yet another new video that I'm making for you around 5-MeO-DMT to help further educate you and the public about working with this very potent and really quite amazing entheogenic molecule. Now, this video that I'm making today is on this subject of full disclosure and informed consent when working with 5-MeO-DMT. We could also call it conversations that 5-MeO-DMT facilitators should have with their clients before anyone gets served any amount of 5-MeO-DMT.
Now, as you may know, I have been busy trying to educate the public about 5-MeO-DMT for pretty much the past 18 years. Currently I work as an instructor at Mindscape Psychedelic Institute where we teach classes on 5-MeO-DMT facilitation as well as integration. I am also a professional 5-MeO-DMT integration specialist, meaning that I work privately with clients to help them integrate and make sense of their experience and find ways to make it most productive for them to integrate into their embodied experience of being.
I also mentor a variety of different people who facilitate 5-MeO-DMT. I work with international researchers who are studying this molecule and contemplating how to bring it into the therapeutic space in ways that are productive and ethical and also efficacious. And in my experience and this has been true for the past 18 years that I've been working in this area, I will say that it's rather endemic that a lot of people who are facilitating 5-MeO-DMT are not doing a very good job of preparing their clients for the experience.
And sometimes this comes out of a belief that I am thoroughly in disagreement with this idea of we don't want to tell people too much because we don't want to imprint various ideas within them. We want them just to be open to the experience and also we don't want to scare them because that might lead to a negative experience as well. And I just really think that this is negligent because 5-MeO-DMT is so profound. It is so powerful and it is so unlike any other psychedelic or entheogenic molecule that I would like people to be well educated and understand what it is that they're getting into.
And this is particularly true because even though the experience of 5-MeO-DMT is relatively short, it can impact you for the rest of your life. This is a major major event, major major undertaking. And if we would just put it into another way of talking about it, would you encourage anyone to be casual with their very first meeting with God? Just imagine, imagine you're heading on up to heaven or wherever it is you think God is, and you've got a personal one-on-one with God.
Do you think you might want to know a little bit more about what to expect and what might happen and how to best go through the experience? Well, in essence, this is essentially what we're talking about with 5-MeO-DMT. Now, I'm not going to be getting into theology in this talk here. I really want to keep it practical, keep it focused. So anyway what I have here is a document of it's basically a questionnaire that 5-MeO-DMT facilitators could give to clients and it's presented here with the assumption that these conversations have already been had and this is an opportunity for the client to give some responses and potentially ask for more information.
So, what I'm going to do in this video is I'm just going to read through this questionnaire that I have here and give hopefully brief explanations about the different points and why these questions or why these data points are on this questionnaire and what relevance they have and why they need to be discussed again before anyone is served 5-MeO-DMT so that all clients feel that they have been granted full disclosure and informed consent: that they are given this information and they're saying, "Yes, I understand.
I agree to this. Let's proceed with the psychedelic session." And I'll just say it's really bad when these kinds of questions and these points of information come up after someone has been served because it's too late then. So this is for before anyone gets served. This is part of the preparation process.
Pre-session education and resources — 4:52
All right. So, I've broken it down to a few different sections. The first section is pre-session information and prep. So, the first question that I have for a potential client is, what resources have you used to educate yourself about 5-MeO-DMT? Now, there's a great deal of variety among people who are seeking out entheogenic sessions particularly with 5-MeO-DMT. Some people when you ask them this question say I have read every book I can find. I've watched a dozen videos. I've listened to a variety of lectures.
I've checked out a bunch of different interviews and I feel I'm really well informed about 5-MeO-DMT and I understand the full spectrum of experience that might be available. Then there are other people out there who again I just I don't agree with this. There are other people out there who when asked this will say I have intentionally not exposed myself to any information or education about 5-MeO-DMT because I don't want to be influenced by anybody's opinion. Now I'll just go ahead and say this just flat out.
I don't think it's possible to actually be influenced by the information that you get. I'll just give you a clear example. 5-MeO-DMT has a well-deserved reputation as giving access to truly astounding and ecstatically positive beautiful and amazing experiences of the divine of non-dual nature of the being of the infinite nature of consciousness and the self. Yet, if exposure to that information could influence somebody's experience or somehow determine someone's experience, then anybody who heard that they would never have a challenging, traumatic or difficult experience.
Yet, that is exactly what happens. So, I think this whole idea that I don't want to hear anybody else's opinion because that's going to influence me or somehow direct my experience in a particular way. I just don't think it's possible. I think that's basically nonsense. And so, any potential client who says that says, "No, please don't tell me anything because I don't want to be influenced." They're really doing themselves a disservice. And I think the facilitator is also doing themselves a disservice because it's very important for your clients to have accurate information so that they don't come out of the experience thinking you the facilitator did something wrong if my experience wasn't beautiful or I the client must have done something wrong if it wasn't beautiful.
Anyway, some people will say, "Yeah, I've done like minimal research, like I've seen a few Instagram posts or something like that." And it's just important for the facilitator to say, "Hey, that's not enough." And if the facilitator wants, they can then direct them to what they consider to be good sources of information about 5-MeO-DMT. Okay, personal plug. My book Entheogenic Liberation. Most people who read this book tell me one of two things. One is, "I'm so glad I read it before I had my 5-MeO-DMT experience," or two, "I read it afterwards, but I sure wish I had read it first." So that's, you know, that's me.
It's my video. I work on educating people about 5-MeO-DMT. So that's what I would recommend starting with. But there's other good resources out there and there's also lots of really bad resources out there. So the job of the facilitator is to either have a full conversation with their client saying, "Okay, these are all the things I want to make sure you know," or direct them to what you, the facilitator, consider to be good, valid, accurate, and hopefully comprehensive information about 5-MeO-DMT so that your clients have a good understanding of what it is that they are getting themselves into.
And again, if somebody says, "Yeah, I don't want to educate myself about it," as a facilitator I would say, "Well, you're either going to sit down and hear my lecture about it or we're not going to work." That—sorry, you need to know about this before choosing to work with it.
Motivation, expectations, and intentions — 9:07
Next question. What do you hope to gain by working with 5-MeO-DMT? What do you hope to get out of it? What inspired you to make this choice? Now here we're not necessarily looking for right or wrong answers to any degree but I think it's very helpful to clarify what has inspired people to come and choose to work with 5-MeO-DMT. And then the facilitator can assess: is this a realistic desire? Is this a realistic claim? Do they feel that maybe we need to soften this person's expectations? So, for example, somebody might say, "Yeah, I'm really hoping to experience God." Now, that's a valid reason for working with 5-MeO-DMT.
That's part of the phenomenological profile, but there's no guarantees. So, if someone were to say something like that, it'd be very important for the facilitator to remind them, well, that's great, but just so you know, results vary. There's no determined outcome of having this experience. Or let's say somebody says, "Hey, I've been suffering from cancer and you know, I saw on the internet that 5-MeO-DMT cured somebody's cancer." So that's what I'm hoping for. That's another place where I would really hope that the facilitator can say, "Hey, you know, we don't really have conclusive evidence that 5-MeO-DMT resolves any kind of illnesses like this.
We want you to have a realistic picture, realistic understanding." Also I think that this question is important and I have another section that kind of deals with the same topic a little bit later, but in psychedelic therapy work in general, clients and participants are encouraged to get clear on your intentions and bring those intentions into your psychedelic experience. Now the problem with intentions in 5-MeO-DMT is that once we cross over into the large dose range of the quote full release dose which can potentially completely dissolve the ego personal intentions are 100% irrelevant because there's no ego there to say hey wait this was my intention.
So this is another part of the conversation that when people are expressing this is what's bringing me to the 5-MeO-DMT experience the facilitator can help create a realistic understanding and picture of what working with it actually entails what it involves and whether that's realistic to have those intentions or not. You know, here's another one that long ago when I was actively facilitating, I had a gentleman come and say that he wanted to take 5-MeO-DMT because his mother recently died and he hoped to commune with her spirit.
I've never experienced 5-MeO-DMT as working that way. So, that was a conversation we need to have and then see, but do you really want to go through with this? Because this desire that you've just stated, I don't think it's a realistic understanding of what 5-MeO-DMT is or does. And I think you're going to be really disappointed if you're taking this so that you can commune with your dead mother's spirit.
Preparation and personal circumstances — 12:31
Next one. How have you prepared for this session? Please describe. This is just a good way of getting an assessment of: A, if somebody is taking this event seriously; and B, if they've done the necessary work that might be required for them in order to qualify for the session. So for example, if somebody is taking a medication that's contraindicated by working with 5-MeO-DMT, we need to see evidence that they have worked on drawing down their use of that medication and that they're going to be off for a sufficient number of days.
Or if somebody has you know if they said look look I'm coming into this but I'm having a really difficult domestic situation. Then we could ask like well what have you done to help resolve that domestic situation. Because we want people to be in a relatively stable and secure place. We want to make sure that they're healthy. We want to make sure that they are doing whatever they can to help prep themselves for the enormity of what taking 5-MeO-DMT involves. And so here, you know, different people's answers are going to be different depending on their life circumstances and depending on what really has been advised for them.
But here if the facilitator has given specific advice or instructions of I need to see this from you before we proceed with this session, we need to get an honest response from someone to make sure that this is in their best interest and that this is a good time for them and that they have done what they need to make sure that it's going to be as safe and secure and as productive as possible.
Difficult truths and major life changes — 14:11
Next question. Sometimes when working with 5-MeO-DMT, it can act as a powerful truth serum that exposes or highlights uncomfortable truths about oneself, life's circumstances, choices, etc. While making dramatic life changes is not necessarily recommended immediately after a session with 5-MeO-DMT, do you have concerns about changes you might be inspired to make or truths you might need to face? What are they? I think this is a really important conversation to have with people. Now, of course, some people are going to say, "Hey, everything's good.
I'm pretty conscious and aware of my current life circumstances and my relationships and my job, and that I feel that this is a really good time for me to be working with 5-MeO-DMT." But somebody else might say, "Well, you know, my partner and I are really struggling. I've really been contemplating some kind of divorce or separation, or I'm considering leaving work, or my kids are really bugging me." You know, I'm just throwing stuff out there. But of course, the advice as is stated in this question itself is please don't make giant life changes immediately after a psychedelic session.
Sometimes people feel very inspired to, oh, I'm going to act on it right now. I'm going to sell my house, going to leave my job, and I'm going to go off to Mexico and learn how to be a Bufo facilitator, and this is my mission. This is my calling. And we as facilitators, we always want to help put the brakes on that and slow people down and say, "Hey, really take your time to consider this before making these major life choices." But it's important to understand that sometimes people do come to really, really hard conclusions about their life, about their relationships, about their choices.
They come to a new understanding of circumstances that they're in or even their own self-image and their own narrative and picture of who it is that they think that they are and the choices that they've made and the actions that they're undertaking. So, people often do make very big changes in their lives and it's worthwhile just having that conversation. You know, sometimes in talking to people they might say, you know what, I don't feel like I'm ready to blow up my life.
And of course, the advice is don't blow up your life. But it's important to think about that it does reveal deep, deep truths. And sometimes people come through it and they realize that actually they've been really unhappy in their marriage for the past however many years and that they really do want to make big changes. And this can help inspire that. And I do think that ultimately that is healthy and that is good. But it can be very disruptive to someone's life and it's important to have these conversations.
And sometimes if people say, "Well, look, I'm in between jobs. I'm in between relationships. I don't have any kids. I'm not taking care of my parents." That can be an ideal time to work with 5-MeO-DMT because it's kind of an open slate. But somebody who's really locked into family, job, career, life choices, it could be highly disruptive. And again, it's not to say that they shouldn't do it. But it's good to have these conversations ahead of time so that people aren't caught unawares or off guard afterwards.
Agreeing on the session structure — 17:36
Next question. Has dosage administration and the overall structure of your 5-MeO-DMT session been explained to you to your satisfaction? Yes. Or do you need more information? This is just another one where some people who facilitate just don't have these conversations ahead of time. And so then the person shows up and then they learn, oh, I have to wait five hours until my turn and then I only get a half an hour and now I've been instructed that I can't be loud because I'm being served in an area where they have concerns that the neighbors might hear.
And I only get one hit. You know, these are all like real examples from my own practice and experience of helping people integrate. And sometimes people say that yeah it was never discussed what the dosage range would be and my facilitator only served me a small dose and then after served me that said if I wanted a larger dose I'd have to come back another day and I traveled 200 miles for this. Or I've also gotten people say that they've been served and then they asked for another hit and the facilitator said, oh, well, we didn't talk about that, so I'm going to need to charge you another $200 and I need you to PayPal me or Venmo me right now before I serve that hit to you.
And this is just crazy. This is like so unprofessional that all of these conversations need to be had ahead of time so that when the person shows up for their session, they know what to expect. They know how they're going to be served. They know who's going to be there, what the format is going to be, whether they're going to be inside, outside, offered more than one round of medicine, if other people are going to be there. I've also had examples of people being served and saying that their facilitator showed up for the session and then brought a whole bunch of people with them or brought other facilitators or brought assistants or apprentices, but it was never discussed with the client.
And again, I just think that's just highly highly unprofessional. Like it should be like a contract. This is what we're agreeing to do. This is the work that you have paid for, that you've signed up for, and we're going to do it that way. I just think it's absurd that anybody would be surprised by something that happens in their session in this capacity. Have these conversations ahead of time.
My approach to energetic completion — 19:58
Okay, This next one is a bit more with my own particular focus on working with 5-MeO-DMT as non-dual energetic therapy. But there are people out there who practice this way. So, I think that it's a good conversation to have. The question is, has the focus on reaching quote energetic completion, which might include taking several rounds of medicine, been adequately explained to you? Yes. Or do you need more information? So, here, as I've discussed in elsewhere in my books, podcasts, videos, etc., that when we're going with this idea of energetic completion is that we, as a facilitator, what we're encouraging is that when we're working with 5-MeO-DMT that we're introducing a huge influx of energy into someone's body and being and that can trigger a whole cascade of energetic events purging, screaming, crying, fighting, releasing, going to an ecstatic orgasmic state.
All kinds of things can take place. But the metaphor that I like to use is if the baby's half out, even if the woman doesn't want to give birth anymore, it's the doctor's job to make sure that the baby gets all the way out. And so working with 5-MeO-DMT can kind of be like that sometimes where if you take a hit, it starts an energetic process, but that wasn't enough to complete the energetic process. And if we're focusing on reaching energetic completion, then the role of the facilitator is that to encourage the client to take more to continue with whatever this process is.
So we can reach a point where we can say, "Hey, metaphorically the baby is out and now you can go home." And that prior to that, if the baby's only halfway out, it's actually important to keep working because it can be energetically dangerous for you to stop the session now and simply go home because you're uncomfortable or you're afraid. So, that's a different way of working with the medicine. But it's important to have these conversations and sometimes I also recommend clients to have these conversations with facilitators because there are a lot of facilitators who say "Hey, you get one big hit, and once you've had that, whatever happens, you're done for the day." And I think that sets up a condition where clients can be leaving in a way that they're not grounded, they're not complete, they might be in a state of traumatic reaction.
It can be very, very difficult particularly on the later integration side of the experience if somebody leaves a session without having reached energetic completion. So it's a very important criterion. Not everybody facilitates that way; probably most don't but I think it's a good conversation to have with your clients ahead of time or if you're a client that's interested in that have that conversation with your facilitator if they don't bring it up.
Coaching between rounds — 22:48
This next one is under the assumption that there's going to be what I call multiple rounds of medicine within the session which means the client has the opportunity to take additional hits or dosages of 5-MeO-DMT over the course of the session. So this question is are you open to receiving advice and coaching between administrations of 5-MeO-DMT? And so here the another recent video that I put out is called the 5-MeO-DMT diagnostic round where I talk about how once someone has their first large full release dose of 5-MeO-DMT.
As a facilitator, you then have a lot of information about how easily was this person able to surrender and relax? Or were there unconscious patterns that were fighting with this or maybe it was even a conscious resistance or what showed up? Was someone flailing around wildly? Was somebody screaming and yelling? Was somebody showing spontaneous bilaterally symmetrical movements in the body? There's all kinds of things that can happen. But with the idea that we're doing multiple rounds of medicine is that if the facilitator has an understanding of these energetics, they can then potentially give some advice and some coaching and saying, "Okay, so last time, for example, last time you were kind of scared and you were really gripped like this.
This time I want to invite you to consciously try and relax and open yourself up as much as you can and see if that can change the quality of your experience." So that's just a really simple example. Now some people are not open to coaching. Some people like, "No, don't tell me what to do." Well, I personally as a former facilitator I would never want to work with somebody like that. And if I did get a client like that, I would say, "I'm sorry, but we're not able to continue the work." Because it's very important that you be open to coaching and feedback.
Because otherwise, you know, we're just we're not going to keep working here because I'm not interested in just letting somebody bang their head against the wall and sit back and watch and say, "Wow, that looks painful." We're going to do something about it. Anyway, I think there's a lot of room for coaching and giving advice and giving feedback to people. But it's important that clients also be open to that and hopefully you have that conversation first ahead of time.
The role of witnesses — 25:12
Do you understand the role of witnesses? This is also a conversation that might need to be held with anybody who is coming to witness somebody's 5-MeO-DMT experience. So, for example, in the recent video that I put out with Steve Rio, we kind of briefly discussed this topic. And Steve Rio said that he encourages witnesses to be compassionate and loving about someone's experience, but to not energetically or emotionally insert themselves into someone's experience by being overly empathetic or making that person's emotions or experiences theirs or trying to somehow soothe or caretake someone who is having their session.
So what I like to say is that the role of a witness is to neutrally be present within the session and they're there to observe and to witness, but they're not there to get involved. And the last thing we want is somebody who's witnessing suddenly intervening and like, oh, this looks scary and so I'm here to try and help you and make you feel better. It's just very important that anybody who's a witness that you're off to the side and you are a witness and you're not supposed to be getting involved in the session.
And also if a witness is starting to experience lots of emotions or fears or they're starting to hyperventilate, then it's actually the job of the facilitator to say, "Okay, I'm going to ask you to leave the room." Because your energetic presence can have a negative impact on the client who is having their session. We want to make sure that a client is the focus of each session, not other people who are present to witness it. And also the role for a client who's having a session is not to reach out and try and involve people who may be witnessing the session.
So sometimes people take a hit and then they want to get up off the mat because maybe they see their significant other over there and they're like, "Oh, I love you so much. Please come to me." And they might even grab them and try and pull them down on top of them or they might reach out and cling to them like a drowning person. And that's just where it is the role of the facilitator to try and extricate the person from the witness.
And then if that becomes problematic, then again we might need to ask the witness to leave the room so that the client can focus on their own experience without projecting outwards and exteriorizing their experience and making it about someone else or something else.
Video recording, memory, and accountability — 27:51
Do you understand the value of video recording your session? This is an interesting topic. Some people who facilitate because they're underground facilitators they don't want anybody video recording the session because they don't want there to be video evidence. I think that's unfortunate. It's part of the reality of working in the prohibition era. Other people who facilitate say we don't want to video record a session because this is sacred and it's a ceremony and that it cheapens it. And then still other people say, well, if you video record that it's going to create a performance effect where there's this observer effect of the camera's watching, so now the person performs for the camera.
But I think that we can have good conversations about this with clients. But the basic idea is that video recording a session for one it helps protect everybody involved because the ego can dissolve and that clients might act out or they might not be aware of what is taking place within the session. Having a video recording just helps keep things clean and clear so you can go back and watch the recording and even if the client says I don't remember what happened they can watch the video and then they can see what happened.
So for example, a lot of people get triggered in their ego in a 5-MeO-DMT session where they might then project out that their facilitator is some kind of cult leader or is working some kind of dark magic on them or something like that. I mean it sounds kind of funny as I share it here in this video, but I'll just say it's super super common. Happens a lot. Many people who facilitate have stories to tell of exactly these kinds of experiences.
So there again it could be useful to have a video where you can say look I know you felt that we were doing some kind of dark magic on you but look here's the video because you can see nothing is happening. Also just another example, sometimes people take off their clothing when they're experiencing 5-MeO-DMT. And sometimes when people return, their ego returns, and they find that they're naked, they might think, "The facilitator took my clothes off." But if we have a video, we can say, "No, actually this was you.
See, this was you." Or another example, sometimes people really act out and sometimes they hurt themselves. They might thrash around wildly. They might get some bruises or some cuts and again the ego comes back and they realize like, "Oh, my hands are bleeding. Did somebody hurt me?" Again, it's good to have a video so you can show, like, "Actually, this was you." Okay, so I think that it helps protect facilitators and clients from potential confusion from ego dissolution states or acting out or things that might take place within a session.
And also as an integration specialist, I will tell you it is extremely extremely useful to have video recordings of people's sessions to help them understand and integrate all the different energies and energetic embodiments and presentations that they went through over the course of their session. Because a lot of this happens without the client having any direct awareness of what is taking place. So, it's just extremely useful to have a video afterwards. I think it serves everyone. It serves clients, it serves facilitators, and it serves integration guides.
And I don't really think there's a good excuse for not video recording sessions. But of course, that's people's choice.
Roles and responsibilities in the session space — 31:27
Let's see. Have the expectations for everyone's role and behavior in the session space been adequately explained to you? So here we're talking about what is the role of the client, what is the role of the facilitator, what are the roles of the witnesses, and then also are there any assistants who are present, are there musicians present? It's pretty rare, but it does happen. Is there anybody who is like an apprentice who's learning how to facilitate? What's their role? For facilitators, really the main thing is that if you're a facilitator, you need to be in charge of the space.
You need to be in charge. You need to be the authority and that it should be clear because sometimes if facilitators do not take on an authoritative role then if the client is desperate and acting out and reaching out then they might reach out to anyone and they might not know like who's in charge here and unfortunately I've heard some really poor stories of really bad facilitation where facilitators didn't take charge didn't step up didn't hold space in a way that was really effective.
And it leaves clients confused feeling poorly served and sometimes leaves them bitter and angry. So just spell it all out for everyone. Make it clear what is everyone's role? What are the guidelines? How are we behaving in this space? This is basic facilitation.
Explaining the facilitation methodology — 33:01
Have the specifics of the facilitation methodology been fully explained and disclosed to your satisfaction? Now different people who serve 5-MeO-DMT have different modalities like there might be vaporizing involved. There might be a nasal administration, there might be rectal administration which is rare. There might be an injection involved. There might be injection and vaporization involved. There might be multiple rounds of medicine involved. There might only be one. Is it going to be inside? Is it going to be outside? What do we do in case somebody takes their clothes off?
What happens if there's purging? When do we clean people up? When do we get them a towel? What happens if there's a big screaming freakout and somebody tries to run away? What are the rules? Well, that's like the last question. What is everybody's roles? And then again, what is the methodology? Some people like to start with a small dose and work their way up to a large dose. Some people stop once they get to the large dose. Some people then allow multiple large doses.
Some people say, "Hey, everything's got to fit within an hour." Other people say, "Hey, it's open-ended that we're not going to rush you through." Some people serve in groups. Some people serve with everybody taking a hit at once. Some people serve with everybody getting a turn, yet everybody's present. Others meet in a space, but then there's a private room where each person is served individually. Whatever your methodology and style is as a facilitator, just make sure your client knows before they show up so that helps them feel safe and secure.
It's very important that clients feel that they are in good hands, that they know what to expect, that they know what's going to be happening, that they know the overall arc of what the event is going to be like, and it just serves everyone to have all of this be clear and upfront and discussed ahead of time. Again, in my work as an integration guide, I will say when I work with clients who say, "Well, yeah, I showed up and then it wasn't at all what I expected or I had no idea that it was going to be like this." They tend to be bitter and angry and you can't, in most cases, you can't leave Yelp reviews for facilitators online, but man, they'd be given one star if they could.
So, as a facilitator, do yourself a favor. Just be clear about all this. Have the conversation ahead of time. Make sure your clients know what to expect.
Post-session connection and social isolation — 35:34
Okay. Next section I have on my questionnaire is post-session. A powerful 5-MeO-DMT experience can leave individuals feeling isolated and alone as it can be difficult for others to understand or relate to without their own direct experience. Are there others in your social circle that have experience with 5-MeO-DMT with whom you can speak and share after your experience? Yes or no? This is a really important one because as I've said for many years now that it's quite ironic, but the full non-dual experience and that unitary experience that "I'm dissolving and uniting into God consciousness" experience of 5-MeO-DMT while it's the most unitary experience a human being can have, it's also the most profoundly socially isolating because anybody who has this experience really dramatically now understands: most people don't know what this experience is even if they believe in it or have some kind of idea that it's possible.
But it leaves people feeling very isolated. And this is even true among a peer group that has a lot of experience with other psychedelics because 5-MeO-DMT is stronger than other psychedelics. It goes well beyond other psychedelics and the experiences that they give rise to. So it leaves people feeling very alone and isolated. So this is where as a facilitator I think it's important to either offer some kind of after-session integration or just even check-ins and calls or perhaps if you have a community that you can introduce people to or you have integration guides and specialists that you can refer them to like me to someone that they can just talk about their experience with is very very important because it's also important to acknowledge that most people who go through this experience really, really, really, really want to talk about it.
And maybe you have a friend or roommate who's had a 5-MeO-DMT experience and you're probably like nodding your head like, "Yeah, like my friend just would not shut up about it. That's all they wanted to talk about for months." People are inspired. They're really inspired and they're really passionate about this, but again, it could be hard to talk about. Or if you're going to a traditional therapist or psychiatrist, if you start to talk about your 5-MeO-DMT experience, they might say, "Hey, it's time to check you in because what you're saying sounds like some kind of psychosis or aberrant behavior, yet it's normal with 5-MeO-DMT." So, it's just important that people have access to other people that they can talk to and share their experience with.
Again, recognizing that most people really are going to want to talk about it. They're gonna want to talk about it a lot. And it could be hard for spouses. Like if somebody's husband or wife goes and has this experience, but the husband or wife doesn't, man, this is a place of marital discord and relationship discord. I'll just flat out tell you that. Because that the partner who had the experience, they're going to want to tell their husband or wife all about it or their significant other or boyfriend or girlfriend, and they're just going to overload them with information.
And sometimes it creates a great deal of tension within relationships. So, it's important to have people to talk to and talking to clients about having people to talk to before they have their experience and not just leaving them hanging afterwards with, "Oh, I don't know who to talk to about this. I don't know where to go, but I really want to talk to them."
Aftercare and integration support — 38:59
Have you received information about post-session aftercare support and integration? Now, as I always like to share with my own students, I do consider 5-MeO-DMT facilitation to be different and distinct than 5-MeO-DMT integration. Not everybody who facilitates is going to want to provide integration or even necessarily be good at providing integration. It's a completely different set of skills and abilities. It's a very very different job of giving integration and aftercare. But I do think that anybody who facilitates should have some education around integration.
And also, if they don't want to give integration and aftercare, then they need to provide references to their clients of where they can go to find people who can help them integrate and provide aftercare. And this has really become a fundamental part of the 5-MeO-DMT experience. And sort of the early years we had this phenomenon of what has disparagingly been called drive-by shamanism where 5-MeO-DMT facilitators would show up in somebody's town, serve 5-MeO-DMT to as many people as they could over the course of a weekend and then leave and then be unreachable afterwards and kind of leave this dysregulated aftermath behind them with people who now are having a difficult time integrating and they don't have anybody to talk to.
They don't know who to talk to. They don't know how to get advice or get help. And there's not so much of that happening these days, but there is what is also now being called like fast food 5-MeO-DMT or McDonald's 5-MeO-DMT, like where you show up at a place in Mexico and you just sign up and then you have an appointment an hour later and you're given 5-MeO-DMT and then you walk out and there's no real aftercare. But again, most people want to talk about their 5-MeO-DMT experience.
It also is very challenging to integrate and make sense of and there's a whole plethora of aftereffects that happen. So for example, I have another video here in my YouTube channel called understanding and working with 5-MeO-DMT reactivations and that's all about these really powerful energetic events that happen after having experienced 5-MeO-DMT and that can impact people for days, weeks and sometimes even months afterwards. So providing aftercare support and integration is very important and at the very least is kind of like these discussion groups for people to get together and everybody shares about their experience and that can be okay but if somebody's having a really difficult time with their 5-MeO-DMT experience usually group sharings they feel isolated because they feel like there must be something wrong with me.
So, it's just very good to give those resources to clients of where they can go for private integration, one-on-one calls or conversations and ongoing aftercare and support.
Living arrangements and ongoing processing — 42:06
What is your current living status? You're married, kids, roommates. If you need to do a lot of vocal and active expressing and processing after your session, does your living situation accommodate for that? If not, what steps can you take to support your possible ongoing energetic processing post-session? This is one that I think a lot of people don't really pay much attention to that they kind of assume people will do what they need to do afterwards, but like for example, there's this phenomenon of night school where people wake up in the middle of the night after a 5-MeO-DMT session and they might feel that they need to scream really loud or they might need to cry uncontrollably for several hours.
If you sleep in a bed with somebody else, you know, that's hard. Or if you're worried like, oh, I'm going to wake up the kids because I'm, you know, they're going to be worried that mommy's crying in the middle of the night. It's just good to have these conversations with people and really look at, well, what is your current living situation? And if you're having a lot of energetic and emotional processing afterwards, are you going to be able to do that?
And then if their situation doesn't allow for that, then maybe discussing, well, would it be possible for you to go and get a hotel room for a couple days if you need to process or would you be able to take the kids over to your sister's house and have her babysit for a couple of days? You know, these are just random examples, but it can be an important part of the conversation of really understanding that your session with 5-MeO-DMT doesn't necessarily end at the conclusion of the session with the medicine.
That it can be really powerfully energetically charged for a number of days and potentially even weeks afterwards. And so just having a good understanding of someone's living situation. And like, okay, here's another one, because sometimes people they go and they do it and they say, yeah, I didn't tell my husband or I didn't tell my wife or I didn't tell my boyfriend or girlfriend that I was going to do this and I'm not going to tell them. And that's just a recipe for a really difficult situation because then somebody goes home and maybe they're having a lot of difficult reactivations but then they're trying to hide it from their partner.
So just having these conversations and like then we can advise like as a facilitator we can say, look, I really don't advise that you try and hide this from your significant other. It's going to be really important for you to maintain being open, being vulnerable, being honest, being authentic with your experience. So if somebody shares that they have a living situation where they're not able to be open, honest, vulnerable, and potentially continue processing, then we might want to advise that this isn't a good time to be working with 5-MeO-DMT.
Non-duality and the experiential spectrum — 44:52
Okay. Next section, experiential information. Use of 5-MeO-DMT often gives rise to non-dual experiences. Are you familiar with non-duality and non-dual experience? Yes. Or need more information? This mainly applies if we're working with full release doses of 5-MeO-DMT, but I think it's a good place to just start having a conversation with people. Facilitators themselves, they don't necessarily need to be experts on non-duality, but I would hope that they at least have some understanding of it and are able to communicate this and share this with their clients ahead of time.
I personally try and advise people to learn how to communicate about non-dual experiences in a way that doesn't rely on any religious or spiritual traditions or terminology or metaphysics or belief systems. I am not a fan of people being indoctrinated in their psychedelic sessions and experiences and I do think it's perfectly possible to talk about non-dual experiences from a non-religious and non-spiritual perspective. If you are a facilitator and you're listening to this and you're like, "Oh, I don't know how to do that." Read some of my books, okay?
Because I've been busy communicating this for the past 18 years. But I think it's important that clients have some understanding of this. And this is about the ego dissolving, the ego death experience, having a unitary experience, losing track of subject-object relationship or distinction, moving beyond notions of right or wrong, good or bad, yes or no, male, female, going into a unitary infinite state. I'm not going to spend too much time talking about that now because that's a whole another video. Or books.
But it's important that clients have some understanding that this is what we're talking about and also potentially making it clear that most psychedelic experiences with most other psychedelics don't engender non-dual experiences. So, this is where even if somebody has a lot of prior experience with psychedelics, they haven't experienced 5-MeO-DMT. It's different. Most psychedelic experiences are dualistic in nature. That preserves some sense of self, some sense of the ego and the observation and interaction with things that are understood and experienced to be other or not the self.
Whereas 5-MeO-DMT goes into everything is the universal self. There is no separation. There's no distinction between subject and object and there's no ego here to perceive or contemplate or experience any of this.
Ontological shock and changes in identity — 47:31
Which brings us to the next point. Use of 5-MeO-DMT can give rise to quote ontological shock. Has this been adequately explained to you? Yes. Or do you need more information? So ontological shock has to do with your fundamental sense of what is real versus what is not real. What is the nature of reality? What is the nature of the universe? What is the nature of the world? What is the nature of the self? What is the nature of God? What is the nature of consciousness?
What is the nature of being? These are big big topics. And the 5-MeO-DMT experience can be shocking for people. As I've discussed elsewhere, in my opinion that the 5-MeO-DMT experience really does not correlate with any particular religious or spiritual view about the nature of reality. So if people do have deeply held religious or spiritual beliefs, the 5-MeO-DMT experience can be shocking. It can be shocking if you are an atheist. It can be shocking if you are a Christian or a Buddhist or anyone else.
It can still be shocking. And it can really leave people with a sense of my whole model of what I thought reality was has been completely shattered. And so it can be very very disorienting for people. It can also engender radical changes in someone's identity. For example, 5-MeO-DMT is pretty notorious for destroying firmly held religious identities. It's really common for people to say, "Before my 5-MeO-DMT experience, I was an Orthodox Jew and afterwards I'm not, and I'm not quite sure who I am." Or, "I was a Christian and now I'm not." Or whatever.
Right? The possibilities are endless. So this ontological shock, this fundamental shattering of someone's previously held worldview and beliefs is a normal part of working with 5-MeO-DMT. So like if you're working with a client and they say, "Well, you know, my Christian identity is really important to me and I definitely don't want to have that challenge and I don't want to let that go." Then it's maybe working with 5-MeO-DMT is not a good choice then because this might fundamentally challenge that.
This kind of relates to an earlier question about 5-MeO-DMT being like a truth serum that if you are holding on to beliefs that are not fundamentally true 5-MeO-DMT is probably going to dissolve them or at the very least expose that you are holding on to them out of some egoic need or desire. So this is not make your ego feel good kind of experience. This is potentially shattering. Just needs to be discussed.
Whiteouts, blackouts, and conscious recall — 50:22
Okay. Do you understand that in working with 5-MeO-DMT you might pass through periods where you have no conscious recall? And these are often called whiteouts and blackouts. So this is where the ego starts to dissolve and the at least the conscious structures of the ego dissolve and then they return at a later time and it can be very difficult for people to have any kind of memory or awareness of what took place during these whiteouts or blackouts. And it's just good for clients to understand that this is a very real potential and possibility.
Otherwise, it can freak people out if they didn't know. They might like, I don't remember anything. Why don't I remember anything? It's like, well, because this is a normal part of working with 5-MeO-DMT. And it's also important to understand that during these white out and blackout events, people might do all kinds of things, but because their ego is not there and they have no awareness of what's taking place, they don't know that they're doing these things. So, for example, when I mentioned earlier that somebody might take off their clothes or people might scream wildly and thrash about, but they don't know that they're doing that.
They don't have any conscious agency during that time period. And this can be very disconcerting and very surprising when the ego comes back and then again somebody finds, oh, I'm not wearing any clothes or I'm somewhere in a completely different area of the room and I'm all bruised. Did somebody attack me? What happened? But if they can understand, oh, I must have had a white out or a blackout, that can help calm them or relax them.
Discussing reactivations before a session — 52:03
Next, have reactivations been explained to your satisfaction? Do you know when they might happen? For example, meditation, sex, falling asleep, middle of the night. Have you received instructions for how to work with them? Yes. Or do you need more information? Now, this is one that see here if somebody says I have not learned about 5-MeO-DMT and I don't want to know anything about 5-MeO-DMT then they don't know about reactivations. I also have encountered many clients for my integration calls who are having reactivations and they tell me nobody told me about reactivations before I took 5-MeO-DMT and then sometimes this might even be worse where a facilitator then tells a client about reactivations after they've been served and oh by the way this might happen to you.
This is such a fundamental part of the 5-MeO-DMT experience that in my opinion everybody needs to be educated about reactivations before they take 5-MeO-DMT so that they can understand this is a fairly normal phenomenon. Doesn't happen to everybody doesn't happen every time but it happens enough that we really want people to be educated about it. Again I do have a video here on YouTube about understanding and working with 5-MeO-DMT reactivations. You can go to that video if you want more information.
Involuntary behavior and physical restraint — 53:27
Do you understand that your body might act out dramatically while under the influence of 5-MeO-DMT and that you might be unaware of what you are doing? Again, this is a normal part of working with 5-MeO-DMT and this needs to be part of the conversation that people do all kinds of things, but it's not their conscious choice. Most often it's actually either their unconscious ego that is acting out or they are just embodying a radical energetic process over which they have no direct or immediate control.
So people scream, they thrash about, sometimes people attack their facilitators. Some people act out sexually towards their facilitator or other people in the room. And again, they're not choosing this. They're not doing this intentionally. It's just how their body is responding to this overwhelming energetic experience and trying to embody and process and act out this energy in the best way possible. But a lot of it is very uncontrolled and it's very very radical. And it's important that people have an understanding that this may take place.
And this is particularly important for the sense that a lot of sharing on social media of 5-MeO-DMT experiences like short clips and videos show people lying peacefully within the experience which also is within the realm of possibility but not everybody does that. So again we want to have full disclosure and informed consent that people understand that they might act out. Related to this is do you understand that you might need to be physically restrained for your safety or the safety of others?
Yes. Or need more information. Like if somebody's thrashing about wildly or slamming themselves into the ground, the job of the facilitator is to restrain them and make sure that they're being kept safe. And this is not an area where somebody can consent to being restrained because they don't know that they're acting out. That this is where facilitators need to simply take charge and restrain the person for their safety, for the safety of others. This is where we need to have the conversation ahead of time, not afterwards.
Because it can trigger traumatic responses within people, but this needs to be part of the conversation so that people understand that this is a possibility. And sometimes people really do hurt themselves if they're not being restrained. So, this is just a safety protocol.
Transpersonal and archetypal experiences — 56:05
This next one is a little bit more obscure, but I think it's worthwhile having this conversation because it's actually a common part of the 5-MeO-DMT experience. Are you aware of transpersonal or archetypal energetic processing? Yes. Or need more information? So because the ego is being dissolved in the 5-MeO-DMT experience rather than people experiencing themselves as processing personal content. A lot of the processes are more transpersonal or archetypal and this can be very confusing to the ego when the ego comes back.
So by transpersonal what I mean is beyond the individual self. So let's just start with personal. So let's say somebody has a session with MDMA and their intention is I want to help resolve some of my childhood trauma. And then in the MDMA session, they kind of vividly reexperience the trauma that they experienced as a child and they can visit the abusers and they can kind of release and forgive around that and it feels very personal in that sense. Transpersonal is I was experiencing sensations of abuse and trauma, but it didn't have anything to do with me or it was everyone who's ever been abused or all women who have ever been sexually violated or all the pain and suffering from our disconnection from the earth or something like that.
And then archetypal would be, "I was the Buddha," or "I was Jesus," or "I was an archangel," or something like that where some aspect of the ego is still present and creates sort of an archetypal identity but again it's not filtered through the sense of "This is personal to me," but this is something grander. This is happening at a universal level, a transpersonal level, a cosmic level. And this can be confusing because sometimes then the ego says, "Well, that must be me or maybe I really am doing that." But this is where we want to just bring in the brakes and say, "Hey, this is just a normal part of the experience, but you're not actually healing the world." It just doesn't work that way.
And it can be confusing where people might be expecting personal content, but they're not getting personal content. People are far more likely to either just experience emotions and energies and releases with no particular content or identification or they will tend to be transpersonal or archetypal. But it's actually pretty rare that people experience things that they feel is that was my issue or specifically related to my personal history or identity with 5-MeO-DMT because for a lot of it the ego is not there.
And if the ego is not there, there's no way it's going to be personal. You need to have an ego for it to be personal.
Personal intentions, surrender, and letting go — 59:09
Are you aware that the experience can be so total and overwhelming that personal intentions might be irrelevant and that setting intentions as promoted in general psychedelic therapy is often not applicable to 5-MeO-DMT experience especially with large doses. I think this is a good one to have a conversation on. And I kind of mentioned this earlier, but because within the world of psychedelic therapy, the idea of setting intentions and then returning to those intentions in the session consciously and then also addressing those intentions post-session in your integration work is so highly emphasized.
I think it's important to have conversations with people that intentions are largely irrelevant with 5-MeO-DMT because you're going beyond the ego. You're going beyond the personal identity and it's only the personal identity that has personal intentions. You need to have an identity there for there to be an intention. The advice that I like to give people is that really your only intention with 5-MeO-DMT is relax, surrender, let go, and allow. That's it. That we're going into major major energy work and processing.
And your job is just to allow this experience to unfold and to let go within it. And personal intentions can simply get in the way and you're not really going to be able to implement them anyway. So it's just helping people orient around the idea that working with 5-MeO-DMT really is very very different than other psychedelics where it's far more functional that you can set intention and then return to those intentions within the course of the session and then afterwards in your integration work.
Has the importance of surrendering and letting go been adequately described to you along with suggestions for how to do so? Yay. Great. That's just like what I was talking about in the last bit. You can also see my video on the 5-MeO-DMT diagnostic round where I talk about how we can help people let go, how we can energetically engender that through our body posture, movements, things like that. But again, it's just putting the emphasis on the idea that we want to let go and surrender.
That's our main objective with 5-MeO-DMT. By the way, I just want to mention that there's a weed whacker outside. I don't know if the audio is picking that up, but if you're hearing like a noise, it's the weed whacker outside. And I apologize. I can't control that. And then this last question here of how would you describe your ability to surrender and release control? And this is just a good conversation to have with people. And we just want to encourage people to be honest and that this is not a requirement for working with 5-MeO-DMT.
In other words, if somebody says, "Oh, I really have a hard time letting go." That doesn't mean that they're disqualified from working with 5-MeO-DMT. It just means, okay, we've got an awareness that this might be difficult and challenging for you. Some people are going to say, you know, I don't know what my ability is. And other people might even say, oh, I'm really good at letting go. But the truth is, you're never going to know until they get that diagnostic round.
But it's just good to start orienting people around this idea that our main job when working with 5-MeO-DMT is to surrender and release control and just allow these energies to do what they're going to do.
Nudity, sexual expression, and boundaries — 1:02:47
Next, we have, are you aware that you might feel compelled to take off your clothes or possibly act out sexually? I've already touched on this, but I think it's good to just make it really explicit with people because it happens a lot and it can be confusing for people and especially because a lot of this happens in times where they don't have conscious awareness of what they are doing or what's taking place. There have been cases of facilitators being accused of taking people's clothes off when it was the people who took their own clothes off.
So, it's just it's good to have these conversations and not sexualizing it and not trying to shame people as well that many people like to take off their clothes when they're experiencing 5-MeO-DMT. It's not an excuse for anybody to be sexual and it's just what's taking place. And then also some people do express the energies of 5-MeO-DMT very sexually. Some people have full body orgasms. Some people just automatically start reaching out for anybody else who might be present and engaging with them sexually.
Of course, it's the job of the facilitator to not shame people and also not shut people down and also not participate that this is we let people go through their thing and we don't want to shame them around it and we don't want them to feel like oh this was bad. I did something bad. It's a normal natural part of working with 5-MeO-DMT. So we have those conversations ahead of time.
Staying with the experience after the peak — 1:04:25
This next one is kind of my own or one of my own personal things that I like to emphasize. And some facilitators do this and others just completely neglect it, which I think is unfortunate. But do you understand the importance of staying focused on your experience after the peak and when your ego starts to reform? So here I call this the backside of the experience. Let's say the ego completely dissolves. The person's in a non-dual unitary state. At some point the ego is going to come back.
If people can resist immediately operating from the ego when it comes back, it actually gives them an opportunity to let the ego dissolve. Sometimes even multiple times. It dissolves and comes back. Dissolves and comes back. Dissolves and comes back. And there's a lot more time for ongoing energetic processing, somatic releasing, emotional processing and releasing. But if the ego comes back and then somebody immediately starts operating from that or if the facilitator immediately starts engaging them from the ego, such as asking them, how are you doing?
Is there anything you need? What would you like now? That's forcing the person to operate from their ego versus there's nothing you need to do. Just relax and feel yourself. It gives the client more time to continue to process to continue to work through their experience. And this is just a it's a vital vital part of the process. And a lot of people who facilitate short-circuit it and then a lot of clients themselves because they're so charged up, it's hard for them to not operate from the ego immediately.
And so here the facilitator has a lot of room for coaching and helping them stay relaxed and stay focused in their experience and not just immediately turning to their ego and operating and trying to rush themselves to the conclusion.
Purging and dramatic physical expression — 1:06:19
Have you been educated around purging, vomiting, energetic releases? Hopefully this is a basic conversation that all facilitators have with their clients. People might throw up. It might be big. It might be really messy. They might frothy, bubbly mucus. They might just drool a lot. They might scream. They might yell. They might cry. They might laugh. There's all different ways that people release and embody that experience. It's often very very dramatic, very highly energetically charged. A lot of people who have these kinds of experiences afterwards they will often say, "I didn't know it was possible for me to scream that loud.
I didn't know I could vomit that projectile vomit. I didn't know that so much needed to be cleaned out inside of me." So, it could be surprising for clients, but just letting them know that this is normal part of the process. It happens. And that also that's important for anybody who's witnessing as well to know that yeah, looking like you're going through an exorcism is very common with 5-MeO-DMT. It doesn't mean we need to intervene. It doesn't mean something wrong is happening.
This is a normal part of the process. So again, full disclosure, informed consent, normalizing these objectively non-normal events and processes.
Capacity and consent during the experience — 1:07:41
Lastly, when working with 5-MeO-DMT, there are likely to be periods where you're not able to modify your consent as given prior to consuming this substance. Do you understand and agree to this? Meaning, when the ego is offline, you are not able to make decisions or express desires. So this should be a fundamental part of working with 5-MeO-DMT and having these conversations ahead of time that in the thick of the 5-MeO-DMT experience if there's no ego there, you can't ask people questions.
You can't get their answers. You can't ask them, "Would you like me to hold your hand now? Would you like me to restrain you now? Would you like me to turn you over so that you don't asphyxiate on your own vomit right now?" These are just things that the facilitator might have to do because of the person's safety or out of necessity. And that it's kind of like when we go and get surgery and if you're going to get anesthesia and get knocked out, when you're out, the doctors can't ask you, do you agree to this procedure or not?
No, you have to make all those agreements ahead of time. But in your surgery, there might be an emergency where they need to do something that was not discussed ahead of time. And the same thing can happen with 5-MeO-DMT because if the ego is not there, the person is not able to either change or modify their consent. They're not able to give it. They're not able to rescind it. And this is a fundamental part of working with 5-MeO-DMT. So the discussion needs to be had ahead of time.
Further questions and the limits of this questionnaire — 1:09:12
Then lastly on this questionnaire, I have a spot of do you have any additional questions or concerns? Please write them here. Now please notice in going through this that these are more specifically about the 5-MeO-DMT experience about the phenomenology about what happens during what happens afterwards. This questionnaire is not getting into medical liabilities. It's not getting into contraindications. It's not getting into psychiatric history. Those are other forms, other evaluations, other conversations that facilitators might have with potential clients. But this is more about the process and the experience of 5-MeO-DMT itself.
And if you are a facilitator watching this and if you don't have these kinds of conversations with your clients, please start. And if you are a client looking to work with a facilitator and they're not having these conversations with you, please consider finding another facilitator who is more comprehensive, who is more forthcoming, and is more readily educated and willing to educate you on these topics. These are vital. This should be just square one for working with 5-MeO-DMT. Everybody needs to be talking about these kinds of issues and making these clarifications before they start the work.
It serves the clients. It serves the facilitators. It serves everyone. Full disclosure, informed consent, and the ability to agree to, "I have been educated. I understand what I'm getting into and I still choose to do this." Okay, that is promoting agency and sovereignty among all involved.
Closing and further conversations — 1:10:47
Thanks for watching. Of course, there's a lot more videos here on my YouTube channel, The Entheogenic Evolution. We got lots of interviews, conversations, instructional videos like this. And if you yourself ever want to have a conversation with me, stop by martinball.net and we'll set up a time that we can have a video call and discuss your integration or facilitation needs. Thanks for watching.
